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Bob Murray interview: Unlike Newcastle, Sunderland will never accept Saudi money

Newcastle has been transformed by PIF investment. Photo: Getty Images/Stu Forster

For all the biting comments directed at Ever since Newcastle United were taken over by a consortium led by the Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund two years ago, there has always been a counter-argument that no football club in The country — or the fans — would not reject such rich and ambitious new owners.

Just like Manchester City more than a decade ago, when Abu Dhabi's ruling family decided to buy another struggling mid-table Premier League team with the intention of turning them into one of Europe's preeminent football powers, Newcastle took the money and swallowed them easily to raise concerns.

Supporters, depressed and downtrodden after 14 years of mediocrity and a relegation battle under former owner Mike Ashley, allowed themselves to dream of future glory while their rivals cursed their luck » winning the lottery.»

Newcastle fans will always shield themselves from criticism over Saudi Arabia's appalling human rights record and shrug off constant accusations of sportswashing by claiming other clubs are simply jealous.

For Bob Murray : The former Sunderland chairman who rescued Newcastle's biggest rivals in the 1980s before overseeing his own transformation of the team he supported as a boy into one of the fastest growing clubs in the country is not true. Some clubs would reject the Saudis because of what they represent and stand for.

“I think we would give up the money,” Murray said. “There is one club that Sunderland would refuse. They [Saudi money] don’t need it, it’s about the traditions and structure of our game. This threatens him. It is quite possible that there will be others who would do the same.

“It’s not about Newcastle, it’s about the country that owns it. We are talking about property issues. It took a war to deal with Chelsea. They won more than 20 trophies with Russian money. It took a war in Ukraine to stop this. Football has not received any control over the owners.

“Will Sunderland and Middlesbrough be left behind? Well, it will be difficult for anyone to compete with the government. But it's about what kind of club do you want? When Kevin Keegan was at Newcastle they played great football and were very popular. The Newcastle fans were very loyal and very vocal, they loved their football and a lot of people could identify with that. They loved the team and what they represented, but it won't happen again with Newcastle. Newcastle will never be a popular club.

“Historically, there are many things that unite clubs in the North East. Not anymore. Last week the Saudi Arabian team played Costa Rica and everyone else in their stadium. There were 4,000 people there. That same evening the England women's team played at the Stadium of Light to a full house. I know which stadium I would like to be at.”

Bob Murray became Sunderland chairman in 1986. Photo: Telegraph/Craig Stennett

Murray is unabashedly old school. At the age of 77, he had a front row seat to the revolution in English football that began with the launch of the Premier League in 1992.

The North East was at the forefront of the new order, with Newcastle, Middlesbrough and Sunderland owned by three ambitious local businessmen and all competing in the top flight. Newcastle had Sir John Hall, Middlesbrough had (and still have) Steve Gibson and Sunderland had Murray. It was a golden era. Only Newcastle remained constant competitors in the Premier League. Sunderland and Boro are currently aiming for promotion from the Championship but know they will have to fight to stay alive if they get there.

Under Murray, Sunderland were something big for a time. Under Peter Reid, it finished twice in the top seven of the Premier League, moved to a sold-out 48,000-capacity stadium and a state-of-the-art training facility on the outskirts of the city.

During the 1990s, people talked with delight about the sleeping giant waking up from sleep. And it was Murray who sounded the alarm.

Sunderland couldn't hold on and the sacking of Peter Reid returned the club to a yo-yo existence, bouncing between the Premier League and the Championship until Murray sold to an Irish consortium led by the club's former striker Niall Quinn in 2006.

“Football was in a terrible state in the 1980s,” Murray reflected. “We had hooliganism, we had disasters in Bradford, Hillsborough and Heysel and companies didn’t want to come into the game. Terrible things were happening and football had reached its lowest point.

“I don't know what Sir John Hall's motives were at Newcastle. He definitely made a lot of money from football when he did stock deals and things like that. They made a lot of money. Steve Gibson is the other extreme: at Middlesbrough he only gives money one way. Nobody could do what he does there and he needs to be appreciated.

“In many ways it is true that local businessmen like us can no longer compete. Not like it was in the 90s. When I sold Sunderland it took me two years to find the right owner for Niall [Quinn] and I got £5.2 million for the sale of Sunderland. And I would invest a lot more money in it.

“I never took a penny. I didn't sell for money. Sir John Hall sold to Mike Ashley for money, he didn't care about his legacy. When three North East clubs returned to the big stage in the 90s, looking back it was a great time. Then you had Jack Walker at Blackburn. I was there when someone said: for the amount of money you spend on Blackburn, you should buy Spurs.

“But he wasn’t interested because Blackburn was his club. It was the same with Steve at Middlesbrough and me at Sunderland. Nowadays clubs are bought by people who have nothing to do with the club or the region, it’s a completely different culture.”

Sunderland fans desperate to get back into the Premier League. Photo: Getty Images/Eddie Keogh

Murray takes no pleasure in being proven right. He was wary of the direction the Premier League was heading and sadly believes the journey will inevitably end with the European Super League.

Europe's biggest and richest clubs had already tried and failed to leave UEFA before fan opposition and the threat of government intervention forced English clubs Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur» — leave UEFA. The project collapsed shortly after their departure. Murray suspects this is only a temporary reprieve.

“I was there when the Premier League started,” he explained. “It was a breakaway, but basically it was a grab for money and power. I could see it happening. The only reason for success was technology and the sky. It skyrocketed and for me the European Super League inevitably came from there. They'll try again. They want more money and they want control.

“The big clubs will let the dust settle and try again. They will have these conversations. They will be thinking about how and when is the right time to try to get it going again. Greed seems insatiable. When I left Sunderland in 2006, I didn't like the way football had become. I stopped loving him.”

So what happened to his beloved Sunderland? Since Murray's sale there have been four different owners. The Irish Drumaville consortium, the wealthy American Ellis Short, the English businessman Stuart Donald and now the young Frenchman Cyril Louis-Dreyfus. Under Donald, the club moved into the third division of English football for only the second time in its history. They spent four years in League One but were promoted in 2022 and reached the Championship play-offs last season, losing to Luton in the semi-final.

«Tony Mowbray is perfect for where Sunderland are»< p> With an intriguing plan to sign and groom — and then sell — young players from across Europe under the wily tutelage of veteran coach Tony Mowbray, they sit fourth in the Championship. The dark days seem behind us.

“At Sunderland we have a modern model with a young owner from a wealthy family,” Murray added. “But I really like our owners. I'm very supportive of them because we've had two really bad owners: the American Ellis Short (and I'm struggling to remember what he was right about) and the other contenders [Stuart Donald and Charlie Methven]. This team is doing the right thing.

“Sunderland are very united at the moment, that's the main thing. The manager is perfect for where we are. We are a happy club and we love watching all these young players play for their careers and for each other.

Sunderland will return to the Premier League. If you look at the top 20 clubs in the country or potentially the best, Sunderland will always be one of them. Sunderland will appear again at some stage in the short to medium term. Yes, he belongs to a foreign owner, but he comes from a football family and the family is very rich. He is a very rich young man, wise beyond his years. He will be a good owner.”

Newcastle will argue that they also have very good owners, but Tyneside is unlikely to share that view any time soon.

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