Enemies from the USA, Trusova’s rudeness, sponsor from Putin: a powerful interview with Rodnina

Three-time Olympic champion in figure skating Irina Rodnina became the next guest of the show “In Two Words”, in which she spoke about enemies from the USA and those responsible for Russian doping, the appearance of Dzyuba in the State Duma and figure skaters Tutberidze, Trusova’s rudeness and the scandal around Valieva, “ sponsor from Putin» for the FFKKR and a tweet with Obama and a banana.

— Do they understand sports in the State Duma?

— There are a lot of athletes there. Great athletes.

— And we mostly hear not from athletes. Why, for example, San Sanych Karelin, when you ask him questions, answers: “I don’t want there to be too many of me.”

— It’s just that you mainly observe plenary sessions. And all big matters in our country are decided in committees behind closed doors, unfortunately. Perhaps we will live to see them too. And at plenary sessions we sometimes have questions that were not raised at all in the committees. This is, you know, window dressing and work for the public.

— It’s more about public space.

— Do you really care about this? Are you asking about it? Are you wondering about football, about fan IDs, whether to sell beer at stadiums or not to sell it. If we are invited somewhere, it is only for this purpose; nothing else interests us.

— And yet, even in such questions, we most often hear Teryushkov and Khamzaev. That is, not athletes.

— Probably because we (the athletes) know sports journalism better than other deputies. Therefore, it is better for us to remain silent.

— But you certainly are not silent.

— I — yes, I never remain silent if I have my own opinion. And if you ask him. Many big athletes will not impose themselves, we are terrible individualists. And to talk about sports… Well, after us — only the weather.

— Who is currently missing from the Duma among athletes?

—We have enough athletes. Fetisov and Valuev, for example, are on the ecology committee, Zhurova and I are on the international relations committee, Karpov, if I remember correctly, on the nationalities committee. Sport, it touches everything, is one of the most powerful aspects of the social life of any person.

— What does an athlete need to know and be able to do before getting into the Duma?

— First of all, know your business. Because I have a feeling that now some people who work in the field of management and organization of sports do not really remember or know what happened in Soviet times. And even less — what is in the international sports movement. We have slightly different systems, tasks, and financing. Here, of course, you need to know both. And, of course, know where to move next.

— And yet, do you see which of the young athletes could replace you?

— I don’t wondered about this thought. This is not my story. Any ministry is interested in having its own people who can bring new ideas. This is probably the task of the Ministry of Sports. Because such a large group of athletes got into the Duma thanks to Fetisov, when we still had a sports agency.

We created the Ministry of Sports in 2010, and a separate budget for sports in 2012. That's why we ended up in such a hole then. At first, the sports budget was in the medical system, then in education. And he became independent only two years before the Olympic Games in Sochi.

—Does an athlete have to be popular to get into the Duma?

— It was used at one time. Basically, all our athletes are United Russia, and, with a few exceptions, we are all single-mandate members. Being elected on a list or in a single-mandate constituency are completely different things, so recognition here, of course, matters.

In addition, our voters They understand perfectly well that you can’t buy anything in sports. In sports you have to make yourself. Therefore, there is a certain trust in people who have achieved success through their work and ambitions.

— In this case, can Artem Dzyuba be a deputy?
— Dzyuba is already on a federal scale. What kind of regions are there?

— After all his exercises, he really is already on a planetary scale.

— He is popular, he is an open patriot. And women like him.

—Why are you asking me this question?

— You are a State Duma deputy.

— But this does not mean that I should lead someone there like a train. First of all, what matters is whether he wants it or not. Did you ask him this question? Or is he not up to it yet?

— Well, he has not finished his career yet.

— And not only his career, yes.

“Fetisov said: “Stop fooling around, come.”
— There is a feeling that we have a fairly small percentage of athletes who independently decide to go into lawmaking. Basically, everyone is invited.

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“I’ll tell you honestly, no one invited me.” I decided it myself, and here Fetisov and I were in one team. Because in the State Duma I am the only one who worked in the Central Committee of the Komsomol. Just in the department of sports and defense-mass work. That is, I know quite well how it all worked in our country. We can’t close this door and we don’t know where to go.

We had a certain system, structure. It’s possible that it was my work there that inspired me in the future. In addition, I worked as a coach and as an athlete in the USSR, so for me it was also a well-known story.

— That is, you came with Fetisov, sat down…< br>

— No, Fetisov arrived earlier. Then he called me and said: “Stop fooling around, come.”

It was the year 1987 or 1988, when some things were already brewing. If you remember, after 1988 Fetisov was either allowed to sign a contract, but then they remembered that he was an officer and banned him. This was before we left (for the USA). I left in 1990, Slava — six months before that.

— Perhaps you then actually realized that you shouldn’t judge people leaving the country?
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— You know, I don’t really understand what it means to “condemn.”

— This is to talking about your colleagues.

“Maybe our colleagues can become famous due to this.” After all, next time he may not be invited to the program.

— They don’t understand what real sport is.

— In at best, they know what the GTO complex is.

—And the word “traitor.”

— Because these people have never defended the honor of the country in sports. They haven’t stood on the podium and don’t know what it’s like when, thanks to your performance, not only the flag and the anthem rise, but the stadiums rise. For example, at the World and European Championships, no flag was raised and the anthem was not played until 1973. And there was no screaming or yelling. It’s a flag, not a flag—the main thing is that our performance made us believe in the power of sport.

“I feel sorry for Valieva, she is strong-willed and gifted”
< strong>— You say that some expressions about figure skating anger you. For example?

— Firstly, I am completely infuriated by this excited, drooling delight from our athletes. Well, you’re a commentator, be objective! It especially amuses me when they start: “Well, he has 98 points, which means that he now needs to score a sum of 115, but for this he must at least do all the elements of the third and fourth levels. But here he did not reach the third level , and the track is generally second.”

— Yes. What's the problem?

— What does the viewer even know about “level”? Explain what they are, how lifts are counted, why there is more for this lift and less for another, what is the problem with jumping. It is necessary not to overwhelm the viewer, but…

— Educate?

— Of course!

— In this context, I agree with you — I don’t like it when all the jumps are called “the most difficult”. That is, “the most difficult triple lutz” and at the same time “the most difficult quadruple lutz.” Both are the most difficult in the end.

— Well, if we are talking about Lutz, then they are really the most difficult. But I also really “like” it when they say: “This is an ultra-si element.” Where did this even come from?!

— From artistic gymnastics.

— Correct! Because in gymnastics all elements were divided into difficulty groups A, B and C. And elements that went beyond them were already ultra-si. But what does figure skating have to do with this? We do not have such a breakdown.

< br>

— Well, the coaches and skaters themselves say “ultra-si.”

— Well, they are listening to you! And most coaches, especially those who work at the initial stage, do not distinguish a hook from a hook.

— Now all coaches know this, because the assessment is made up of these elements.

—Some people know, but others don’t. We conduct seminars, and sliding tests have become mandatory. And I realized that there was trouble. These are not coaches of the highest category, not the level of the national team, but they prepare the basis.

At the same time, comparing the figure skating of my time and the modern one is complete stupidity. The rules and requirements have changed more than once. Therefore, when someone starts to compare what happened in our time and now, it is impossible, they are completely different sports. Figure skating is moving forward, and we must understand this. But we still have a special sport, we have two grades. And for some reason, very often we begin to evaluate technical issues through the prism of artistry.

— In what terms?

— Well, I jumped — I didn’t jump. At the same time, I really like it when they say about one of our athletes that she had five quadruple jumps. Well, she only completed 2.5!

— How mysteriously you speak, give us a minute to think about it to understand who it is.< br>

— Here you need to understand one thing — if we turn again to the same gymnastics, then for attempting more complex elements you were given points, even if you made a mistake. And with us, if you make a mistake on a difficult jump, on the contrary, they take away even more from you.

That’s why it’s funny to talk about trying five or four jumps. We can only talk about completed jumps.

—Not quite so. When Sasha Trusova enters a difficult element and doesn’t even go through it, it’s still more interesting to watch than pure triples.

— They don’t give a gold medal for “almost.” That's all.

— So in Beijing the girl who fought and did everything got the gold.

—We have many such examples. I remember the Olympic Games — 1994. Everyone fought, everyone was a leader, and Lesha Urmanov won. Quietly he made his way between Boitano, Petrenko and everyone else and became the champion.

Shcherbakova skated in Beijing — physically and mentally stable.

— But who could he withstand the pressure that fell on Kamila Valieva? Moreover, she is also a strong-willed girl.

— She is a strong-willed girl. I felt very sorry for her, because of all the girls of this generation, she, in my opinion, was the most gifted. She has very good makings — both figure and appearance. That's why I liked Medvedeva — she's bright. And Valieva is also the same, everything is with her.

— There is a feeling that Medvedeva is more about work than about talent. And for Valieva it’s the other way around.

— You know, I’m afraid of the word “talent.” How I’m afraid and when they start saying “Masterpiece!” and all that.

— Doesn’t the word “genius” irritate you?

— Oh, even more. I can only talk about abilities. And you really need to have the appropriate data. We usually say that there must be talent in ballet, and in singing too. But in sports, nature should also gift you. Sport is not just work. Our musicians also work in the ballet and sit for hours at their instruments. Let's put it this way — without work you can't achieve anything at all. Work is the basis, but if nature and your parents have also awarded you with some abilities, then it becomes twice as interesting.

And then there are competitions. This is a different thing. In competitions you have to be a predator — literally, like in a hunt, you have to taste blood. You cannot make a wolf out of a hare, even the most talented, jumping and fast one. Therefore, selection is already underway here. We had many talented, as you say, athletes. The same Toller Cranston…

— Oh, this is the hero of our last issue.

— He changed the look at men's skating! Belousova/Protopopov were also interesting — they showed duet skating, interaction in every movement. Then we came — such impudent Muscovites. They jumped over and ran across them. But now few people will remember that I never skated with any partner. We skated either parallel or in the Kilian position, because after Protopopov we had to show something else.

So Toller Cranston changed men's singles skating, but he didn't win anything. Because his emotions and talent came out of him so much that he could not control them. And how long it took Natalya Bestemyanova to come to terms with this seething energy of the red-haired beast!

— Well, this is Tarasova.

— This is not Tarasova. I think it's experience. Because, excuse me, Tarasova was also at the 1980 Olympics, as were two seasons after. We didn’t start skating until we fell and “sobered up” (laughs). Because emotions are running high. Learning to put them in order, to control your body and thoughts — this is probably what sport is most about, and not how many quads you jumped.

«I saw Trusova's completely boorish behavior «
— But this is what Valieva and Shcherbakova are all about—the balance of technical content and choreography.

— Valieva was a very bright girl that season. But something is wrong in this team of coaches.

— In what way?

— Well, in what… Look — 2014, Lipnitskaya. Where is Lipnitskaya in a year? We lost the girl. Thank God that she has a family now, she got married well and has a child. She lost her mind. I saw her — she was just a tortured child.

Next, 2018 — two girls whom we butted heads with…

— How else? There is only one gold, whoever wins it is a great guy. Whoever loses is naturally offended.

— I will continue anyway. Then we have 2022 — there are already three girls. And this hysteria at the Olympic Games. This means that something is not quite right there.

— But what is so wrong with this reaction? Well, hysterical, yes. The girl was going for this medal, but it didn’t work out, she was upset. She is a living person with a not yet strong psyche.

— Then she has nothing to do at the adult Olympic Games. There are Youth Olympic Games for this.

— Okay, what’s wrong at Tutberidze’s headquarters?

— I think there is a problem there. Something with the psychological situation in the group itself. This is all very difficult, I understand how it happens. When Zhuk (Stanislav Zhuk, a Soviet coach who trained many Olympic champions, including Rodnina — ed.) became interested, and I began to take a back seat, so to speak, it infuriated me wildly. I am an egoist. When I left Zhuk, I knew that Elena Anatolyevna Tchaikovskaya really wanted (to take her in), but I wondered — well, there’s Pakhomova/Gorshkov, Kovalev. Am I going to be number three there? I’d rather go to a coach who will have more freedom and number one status.

— Alena Kostornaya, for similar reasons, moved on to Evgeni Plushenko. Just like Sasha Trusova, by the way.

— Listen, how old was I when I left? And these girls passed on as minors and with the support of their parents.

— Because there is no time now. There is one Olympics — and then everything.

— There is no time! Just don't compare. I left as a person with a lot of experience and who knew his worth. Zhuk taught us to work independently, at least he taught me. Then I started coaching.

So, when I switched to an inexperienced coach, I used what Zhuk taught. Not how to jump, but how to train and conduct the training process.

— You know Plushenko, you were at his skating rink.

— Once. It’s difficult to see in less than an hour.

— Is Plushenko better psychologically than Tutberidze?

— No. There I also saw what seemed to me absolutely boorish behavior on the part of Sasha Trusova. I also told him, how come? To which he answered me: “Well, am I going to remake it? We have competitions soon.”

— In what sense is it boorish?

— When a coach gives you a task, you need to complete it, and not do what you want.

— That is, “if I want to jump, I’ll jump”?

— Yes. «I want this, I want that.» In my opinion, this is a matter of discipline. And discipline in training then affects your discipline in competitions and at important moments. Where it's thin, that's where it breaks. Therefore, when all this hysteria arose, there was nothing surprising for me.

— Then this is a question for Sasha herself, and not for Tutberidze.

—I don’t know who the question is. You asked about Plushenko’s training session — I was there for 40 minutes, 20 of which we drank tea and coffee. And I was there because I head figure skating in the Moscow region, and not because I was very interested in how Sasha Trusova or anyone else was skating there. I had completely different tasks.

And when I saw this… No, maybe other groups now have this too. But I’m from a different generation, I mostly got my knowledge from Zhuk. And for me it was a glaring moment. At one time, for the same reason, I stopped working with Sasha Cohen in the USA. She arrived — an outstanding girl, incredibly simple, but “I do what I want.” No, such things don’t happen to me. Either I am responsible for your preparation, or you and I are discussing some points when you already have knowledge, experience and understanding of yourself, or we are not working together.

Regarding Tutberidze — no, I am only for new champions to appear. After all, many people dreamed of a conveyor belt — Zhuk, Tamara Moskvina, and Tatyana Anatolyevna. But any conveyor has flaws — primarily psychological. And how much will it cost our country to train such a child who will shine in competitions for two or three seasons? What is the asking price? A lot of money. And what is this, for two or three seasons? We don’t live under communism.

— So the conveyor belt is bad?

— If he is interesting in himself. And if there is endless replaceability, then I’m not interested. Probably for some, and even for most, this is great, but this is my opinion. If there is a champion, then I want to see individuality in him — whether in skating or in setting up programs. But not in choreography, let's remove that word. Choreography is at the Bolshoi Theater, but for us it’s about staging programs, where we have to cram in the necessary elements in the allotted time and decorate something between them. This is not choreography, you don’t need to tell me about it.

It’s clear that it’s very easy to take music that already has a plot. Where everything is known to the public.

— «Carmen» conventional, «The Phantom of the Opera»?

— Yes. «Don Quixote» is the same. There's nothing to be said there. Moreover, all ballet music is written for the feet. It doesn’t cost anything to place accents and take movements that exist at the Bolshoi Theater or any other where these works are staged. What kind of choreography is this, can you tell me? What kind of creative process is this?

— But who will repeat Valieva’s “Bolero”? The music is hackneyed, but what a program.

— Well, excuse me, the way Torvill/Dean did “Bolero” is completely different. They have completely new positions. The dances came to us from the floor; there were completely clear, strict positions. And Torvill/Dean showed something completely different from everything else, completely new.

And what did I see in that “Bolero” (Valieva), can you tell me? Which I already saw at Plisetskaya’s. I just remember that when Plisetskaya danced Ravel’s Bolero, the men next to me sat and wheezed. This is called femininity, high individuality! Then you can say “talent”, and “masterpiece”, and “more than a classic”. As for figure skating, I didn’t see any masterpiece there.

—Plastic.

—Now all our girls are stretched out so much that mom, don’t worry, ballerinas can be jealous. So what you are talking about is not plasticity, but stretching. Flexibility, learn English.

Valieva is talented, I already said that. But no one talks honestly about what happened to her (at the Olympics). This is the loss of her coaching team. But it happened, and you know it very well. It’s just that for some reason we talk about some things loudly, and about others we talk with our heads in the sand. So, the girl was broken. And the coach and the doctor are responsible for this girl. And all these fairy tales of hers, at which the IOC and the whole world laughed…

— Do you mean grandfather's glass?

— Yes. Well, let's be honest.

— What should be done in such a situation?

— In my opinion, to be honest.

— When we were in Beijing, the next day, when everything was revealed, we broke into the training area where Eteri was and asked a direct question. She replied: “I don’t engage in gossip.”

— And after that you ask me what the problems are with this coaching staff.

— Does Eteri herself know the answer to the question of who is to blame?

— I don't know. I can only say one thing: there is a general flaw here. Why don’t we take our own doping samples from them at the same time, so that we know what we’re getting ourselves into? Everyone knew that these girls would be hunted. This means that we must be prepared for this. These are the problems we are talking about.

—Then let’s look at it from this side—you and I now actually admit that there is something bad in this doping story on our part it happened. But at the same time, the official rhetoric is that Camila is an innocent child, nothing happened. Why are we doing this?

—I have the same question. This is what you are submitting.

—No. In fact, this is the official position of our authorities, including the ROC and the Ministry of Sports.

— Why then do we ask the question that punishments are being rained down on us? Yes, there is a political background to all this, but also some kind of punishment.

— So we deliberately anger people?

— Hard to tell. But at the same time, only in sports there is a fair play nomination. It doesn’t exist anywhere else—neither in business, nor in politics, especially. Sports have clear rules and a system of punishment for violations. How many Olympic medals have we, for example, lost between 2004 and 2014 inclusive?

— A lot.

— Well, more than forty exactly. And at least someone in our country was held responsible for this? I'm not even saying punishment — just responsibility.

— Not counting the reshuffling of people from place to place.

— You said it correctly — permutations. I worked with the women's biathlon team, they were caught and transferred to the youth team.

— But this cannot be changed.

— Why then do we exclaim that they don’t like us?

— Because the Americans have a false smile, but we are sincere. At least that's what they say.

“They just have better dentists.” The next question, about which our journalists wrote a lot, is how is it that WADA allocated only 19 therapeutic exceptions to Russian athletes, and 500 to Americans and Canadians each. But the fact is that I was on the commission from Russia, which was headed by Smirnov, and we made a request. To which WADA responded to us: “We have given you as much as you requested.”

— That is, we have no requests for therapeutic exceptions?< /strong>

— That is, we still have everything is done according to the principle “Come here — now drive this.” Manual control

— Exactly. I understand that there is no way out of this, but there is no management.

— And then we send judges to the ISU training seminar and are surprised that almost no one passes the tests, like in Frankfurt was last year. And we explain everything with Russophobia.

— Right. No, now, of course, we can talk about Russophobia, but I still think that we need to look deeper. We don't train people. Involve them — at least Kostomarov is the same. Now our champions are skating in shows, and everyone is happy — people look at them, they earn money.

— Well, it’s hard to get them into judges after all. Their salaries are not very high.

— So decide this issue!

“America fought with all its might, but there was no removal”< br>— Do we need to go to international competitions under a neutral flag?

— When it was 2018, I said that we had to go. Because if we didn't go, we had to explain the reason and miss two Olympic cycles. That is, cut off oxygen to coaches and athletes. And it’s understandable why they were traveling under a neutral flag then—it’s their fault, no matter what anyone says. Olympic medals are selected on the basis of tests, and this is, as they say, evidence.

— But now the claims are not about doping.

— Yes. Therefore, now I would not travel under a neutral flag. Now the political situation is different, and this time our athletes have not done anything wrong in terms of sports. Why should it be like this? Just because this is happening in our country now? Why didn’t this happen in 1960, when America was at war? Here we know exactly who we love and who we don’t love. This is a violation of the rules of the IOC itself.

I feel very bad for our athletes and coaches, I feel sorry for them, it’s a colossal amount of work and stress, but business is business. Someone is looking for some options, speaking for another country. And in this context, by the way, the expression “sports citizenship” unnerves me. Citizenship is one thing.

— Well, now Davis/Smolkin decided, due to the difficult situation, to play for Georgia, and took sports citizenship of this country.

— They took ordinary citizenship. And we know how it's done. With a residence permit, they can compete at the World and European Championships, but at the Olympics — only with citizenship. And what difference does it make — well, the girl had American and Russian citizenship, now she will have one more — Georgian. And there is nothing wrong with that. Am I judging, or what? I’m just saying — it doesn’t matter.

— When you mentioned working in the USA, you said “when I went to the enemies.” Why to the enemies?

— Well, it’s probably just what it says in the language. But in general, this is how it turns out. You know, on the other hand, I am very glad that I learned from them, worked in an interesting coaching team, in a new environment. I remember asking John Curry—he had just started coaching—what was the secret? And he said that it was not the coach, but the situation.

At first everyone even laughed at me. I arrived, got acquainted with everyone within a few days and asked: “What hours can I work?” They smiled like this: “Any time! Come and work whenever you need.” But I’m used to the fact that we have a clear ice schedule, when which group goes out.

I had a lot of fun there, I learned a lot from them.

— But at the same time they are “enemies.”

— Well, they really are enemies.

— Why do we have such an attitude towards this country?

— You know, I was received very well there. There was one trainer there who spoke German—I had almost no English at the time, I studied at a German special school—she translated everything for me and helped me. But as soon as students began to come to me and even come from other countries, people began to look at me. Envy is envy. After some time, everything began to change greatly, because within the team I became a competitor for them. Especially in pair skating.

I learn quickly. One day another coach grabbed my hand, and I said to him: “Come on, hold it. Now the skaters’ parents will see you, but here in my pocket is my lawyer’s card.” You can't touch it. At the skating rink, only I was allowed to scream. Apparently, I had so many emotions.

— This year marks ten years since your most provocative tweet — with Barack Obama and a banana.

— So what?

— Was your tweet there or not?

— No. Unfortunately, not mine!

— Unfortunately? So you can show a banana to Obama?

— You know, maybe I’m just from that generation where the banana was considered a good fruit (laughs). And I’m not in a football crowd where a banana means something specific. But this, sorry, is a setup — on my birthday they gave me such a gift.